need clothing advice from cold weather experts
 

So I'm building my cold weather gear up since this is turning out to be a nice cold winter so far. I've always just used the bulky jacket, big bulky pants, method to stay warm, but I've read everywhere that "layering" is a much better alternative.

So my question, how do you do it? Don't be afraid to recommend good gear. I want nice stuff that will last.

I know the basic principle for the upper body,

wool underlayer (smart wool long sleeve shirt), fleece mid layer (any brand or style recommended?), thin waterproof/windproof outter shell (again brands, styles?). These clothes will be used for skiing, cold weather hiking, and of course bugging out if need be.

What about the lower body? I don't know how to layer this.

Smart wool "long johns" as a base, then what? do they make a fleece pant and then shell too? Need help with links to what I need please!

Also feet I plan on using merino wool socks inside an insulated boot (thinsulate). should I also use another layer in the boot? like a thin silk (or something else) boot liner/booty?

I want to get away from the "A Christmas Story" look to winter dressing
http://www.principalspage.com/theblo...2/snowsuit.jpg


Please help me out!

Re: need clothing advice from cold weather experts
 

Sounds like you're on the right track.

Layering works well. Smartwool rules!

I usually go with a light under layer. Top and Bottom.

Then another layer of heavier long underwear or fleece on top of that.

Possibly another heavier fleece top.

At that point who knows. Depends on what I'm doing. I've got layers of Woolrich shirts, Carhartt coats, gore-tex, etc.

The best thing I can tell you is to buy some stuff and experiment. That's what I've done.

And a large puffy layer is sometimes needed even with layers. The large puffy layers tend to insulate well.

I wish I could give you more brand names and products to go on but my collection varies quite a bit. From EMS synthetic, Woolrich, Carhartt, and mil. surplus wool.

Re: need clothing advice from cold weather experts
 

There was a big long thread about down jackets and dressing in layers a couple of months ago. But Search isn't cooperating right now.

Re: need clothing advice from cold weather experts
 

http://www.ems.com/family/index.jsp?...l:102809:lhnav

You could search around this site for ideas.

They're known as Expensive Mountain Stuff around here.
It's not all out mountaineering gear but it's worked fine for me.

Re: need clothing advice from cold weather experts
 

First of all, I like the insulative qualities of the foam clothing. However, when active outdoors, hunting, trapping, making fires, etc, It is very hard on clothing. I love the insulative qualities of fleece, but it does not hold up well to the abuse I put it through.

Wool is a great outer layer, but it absorbs water. I usually like polypro under, fleece as a middle layer, and nylon BDUs as an outer layer. I went canoeing here recently. Water temp was in 40s. Of course we capsized. I was wearing fleece over polypro with a technical shell exterior. I stripped down to the poly, swung the fleece over my head to get rid of most of the water, and put it back on. It was almost dry with just this action. My poly wicked moisture away, the fleece got rid of the water quickly, and my outer layer was non-absorbant, so it was dry. I was never cold. I stayed warm the rest of the trip, and was quite dry in about an hour. But all of this was at 40˚, about 8 degrees above freezing. If it had been 20˚ I would have had a bit more trouble maintianing warmth.

I love fleece, but it is not tough enough. I love wool. It is tough enough, but it absorbes water. Nylon BDUs are not waterproof but they are tough. I DO NOT LIKE moisture barriers like GoreTex in extreme cold because they cannot vent fast enough. Better to have a breathable fabric, accept that it will get wet, and use an insulation that works when wet. A technical jacket to protect from wind may be added.

Re: need clothing advice from cold weather experts
 

Carhartt arctic wear got me through a few. Michigan(powerhouse) Wyoming(wind farm) and Minnesota(wind farm) winters

Re: need clothing advice from cold weather experts
 

i haven't worn a " winter " coat for decades

sweattops/hoodies and sweatpants ( all from second hand stores )
come Sept/Oct
i think i have a compulsion to buy every XXL top i come across

and for the neck, i buy a dollar balaclava and then cut it
( flip it upside down and around, and i have a flap that i put down my front )

keep your feet and head warm
and have something on the outside to cut the wind
and if there's no wind, after an hour outside, you'll be taking off layers

Re: need clothing advice from cold weather experts
 

Bunny Boots.
That is all you need.

Re: need clothing advice from cold weather experts
 

Get a union suit. The lack of a waistband makes one helluva difference in keeping the lower half warm.

Re: need clothing advice from cold weather experts
 

Seal cubs make nice warm coats.

Re: need clothing advice from cold weather experts
 

I do a lot of physical activity (work/play) out in the winter weather. Typically, like Canadian-G, I tend to wear a lot of layers (tees/hoodies) rather than a large winter coat (although they do have thier place).

I find it keeps you warmer and you can layer down if you get too warm.

Because I tend to be doing robust activity when I am out in the winter (cutting trails, hiking to fish loaded with gear, etc.) I always try to carry a change or two of t-shirts. If I get sweated up too much, I'll peel off the damp shirt and replace it. It can mean the diff between a comfortable day and a miserable one. And a t-shirt can be stuffed in an extra pocket.

Typical dress for a cold outing where phys. activity is involved......


Top:

-cotton tshirt
-thermal long sleeve shirt (chillgaurd or equal)
-one hoodie if mild, two if cold
-lined vest
-wool plaid jacket

Bottom:

-boxers, not briefs :)
-cotton sport socks
-wollen work sock
-long underwear (chillgaurd or equal)
-camo pants
-lined pant over top if very cold

Re: need clothing advice from cold weather experts
 

Good call on the bunny boots but you need to have a wide selection of clothing for all cold weather types

Cold Dry (ie butt ass cold)
Cold Wet (ie missirable cold)

For full disclosure I am a huge fan of wool

Cold wet well go over first
Sox thick wool boot type the thicker the better the higher the wool content the better look for sox over 60% wool Change your sox at a minimum 2 times a day If wearing bunny boots 4 times a day

Bunny Boots Beta type not the newere Actons White ones only, the black ones a'rnt rated to as cold temps (keep the valve closed)

Swiss wool water proof surplus Gators

Base Layer silk weight poly pro long underwear

Layer two medium weight wool or expedition weight poly pro underwear

Layer three Wool pants wool sweater

Layer four polar tech or better military grade fleace bibs and jacket

Layer Five Gortex outer shell Parka and Pants

Hands

Gortex shell mittens with wool USGI glove liners

Head wool watch cap/face mask and wool scarf

Cold Dry

Same sox

Boot wise go with a mukluk type boot with the big wool liner that looks like a giant sock sorrel makes some good ones

Same Gators

Same Base Layer and Layer two and three, layer four

Layer five Soft shell jacket and Pants

Hands
Military Surplus Extream Cold Weather mittens the ones with the fur on the back if your lucky you can find an older pair with the wool liners if not the newer nylon are fine

Head is same as above

As for extras

I cary a TAD Hoodie, a polartech watchcap, extra wool glove liners, extra wool shirt and sweater

If your planning on sleeping in a sleeping bag the military has booties to keep you feet warm in that old brown bear suit matterial that are worth there weight in gold also get a Gortex sleeping bag cover

Re: need clothing advice from cold weather experts
 

The current temperature in Moscow is -19 centigrade, and the beginning of the week was colder.

I'm going to walk a kilometer to the grocery store with a backpack, walk around for a half hour inside, then walk back.

After seven years of Russian winter and no car, here's what I can advise...

The best boots you can afford. Wool inserts for the soles (insulation between your foot and the ground is most of what makes warm boots warm).

Wool and natural fibers.

Fur and sheepskin.

Hoods.

"Stacking"- extra mass on the tops of your shoulders and on the top of your head. Heat rises, so ridiculous fur shoulder pads and big tall hats work.

Layering, of course. But use a down vest as one of your layers.

Long coats, enough to go well below your ass.

Wool scarf. Those cheap aritificial fiber hoods, or cotton ski-masks (balaklavas) get the condensation from your breath, and this ices up.

Vot!

Re: need clothing advice from cold weather experts
 

I have a thermal under shirt by Volcom, a pair of Wilson fleece work out pants with a Burton outer snow pant shell, and either a north face jacket or my Burton Jacket. For the ears I have a Columbia headband.

Layering is not hard, I just go with if it looks good/warm go for it. Also You have to factor how long you will be outside for/time inside or in a car. If you are just going out to run errands than there really is no point in wearing alot because you will just get hot in the store or where ever it is you are going. However, if you are going to be outside for a while anything made for ski/snowboarding will keep you insanely warm and dry.

For example today I went out looking for xmas gifts. I just wore genes(get it!?) and a thick hoodie.

Style is not always important I suppose so brands like Volcom, Quicksilver, Burton, Spyder will run a lot. However in defense of this they will last a long time and are very high quality. I had my 8th grade jacket untll My first year of college.

Comfort is always top though. If you can't move well and it is hard to get something over/off then don't go with it.

Re: need clothing advice from cold weather experts
 

layer system.

bottom: poly propelene
mid: wool sweater top, light fleece bottom.
top: gortex pants, gortex jacket. (ski type pants and coat) arcterx is the best.

extreme cold cover with down pants and coat, all can be found at :

http://www.mountaingear.com/

pategonia has a number system 1, 2, 3 , 4 straight forward and obvious.
i know what i'm talking about on this anyhow.:s1:

Re: need clothing advice from cold weather experts
 

Spent ten years between Duluth Minnesota and Marquette Michigan working construction; 45 years in construction nearly all of it in the north.

I don't like wool long johns as they itch. Put cotton next to the skin. The polypropylene stuff is good.

Definitely use the layer principle as you can strip off stuff as you warm up and then later put it back on. I also have done some cougar hunting and weight is a large problem. Flexibility too. The Carhart stuff is great if you are going to weld or crawl under a bulldozer with some wrenches, but it is too stiff for hiking or cross country skiing.

I own the Kaufman style Sorel boots, but again, they are too heavy for long hikes and clumsy on your feet. Great for welding or crawling under..., but not suitable for cross county skiing. I have some bindings for my cross country skis that accept ordinary hiking boots. The air-bob style tread is very good about clearing out for mud and most snow conditions. Also good for frost.

Use a slippery sock like a nylon stretch sock next to your skin and a high loft wool or synthetic sock as the main insulation. Like another poster above, I do not like the gortex lined stuff in clothing or in boots. Traps too much moisture. At temps below 10 degrees you don't need it anyway.

I like one piece long johns such as the Duo-Fold union suit. They don't pull apart at the back during strenuous movements like the two part suits do.

If you are using the pak type (Kaufman Sorel style) boots on a daily basis, be certain to purchase an extra liner when you buy the boots. You need to dry one liner when you are wearing the other. The Kaufman boots with the red rubber band are higher quality than the Kaufmans with the yellow band.

I own a balaklava style head liner that I carried cougar hunting but that was mostly if I needed to spend a night out there.

One more tip; if you anticipate thawing conditions where snow might be falling out of trees or rain and snow mixed, get you a painter's tyvex union suit with a hood. It is very light and new can be carried in a pocket. Way better than a rain suit because it breaths while shedding water. The tyvex won't last long trekking through heavy brush as you can rip it, but with care you can get 3-4 days use. I also carried one of those cougar hunting.

WEIGHT AND BULK CAN BE YOUR ENEMY TOO; DON'T OVERDRESS AND DO PACK SEVERAL WAYS TO START A FIRE. DON'T BREAK INTO A SWEAT ANY TIME YOU CAN AVOID IT. THINK VERY CAREFULLY BEFORE CROSSING ANY KIND OF ICE; TAKE YOUR SNOWSHOE BINDINGS LOOSE OR YOUR SKI BINDINGS LOOSE BEFORE CROSSING ICE. CARRY A SAPLING POLE ACROSS ICE.

Have fun; I plan on staying close to the fire; don't have what it takes any more.

JCB

Re: need clothing advice from cold weather experts
 

Spent some time working in northern Manitoba next to helicoptors at -45C (couldn't stop chopper or it wouldn't start again). All the layering suggestions are good. Don't use wool long johns because, as stated prior, they do itch. Instead use a polypropelene long johns to wick away sweat. Wear wool pants with a breathable/water resistant wind pant over top.

The important thing about layers is to remove some it you start to sweat as this will cause you to get colder, even at very frigid temps.

:coolbeer:

Re: need clothing advice from cold weather experts
 

Thanks to all!!! Nothing much I can add to these great tips. Ice cleats for crossing very slick areas. Waterproof kneepads for working in the slop. I underlayer with silk as much as I can afford.

Re: need clothing advice from cold weather experts
 

I purchased some Danner USA's goretex lined NON steel toe boots just before last winter when a local sporting goods store closed its doors. They were about $300 regularly and $220 on sale. Those boots are an absolute pleasure to wear and they required zero break in time unlike the georgia boot steel toes that i usually buy for work do. Of Course I also enjoy my $30 pack boots but I'll get back to you in 5-10 years on how they are holding up versus my Danners.
(edit for spelling, because I like rum and coke)

Re: need clothing advice from cold weather experts
 

Nothing beats snowmobile gear. Even at -20C and going 40mph all day you don't get chilled. It's pricey!
This is where I get mine
http://www.royaldistributing.com/main/

Re: need clothing advice from cold weather experts
 

Thanks guys. Exactly the information I was looking for.

Basically there is no big secret to it, just layer with the stuff you think would be warm.

I've got a carhartt jacket (LOVE carhartts...I'm a big red neck :-P), a columbia jacket with a zip out fleece liner (I like them zipped apart, yet worn together, that way I have two zipper barriers instead of just the one on the outside shell).

I don't live in extreme cold weather climates, I'm in WV so I expect to see MAYBE -10 on a really really really cold day. I just wasn't sure how to layer the bottom half. I'll just have to look around at the store and see what I can find.

I'm hesitant to use the polypropelene stuff (is that what Under Armor is made from?) because I've seen, personally, what synthetic fibers can do to you in a accident with fire. Not that I ever plan to have that problem, but sometimes you just never know what is going to happen. Does silk wick moisture as a base layer?

Re: need clothing advice from cold weather experts
 

This is the exact same layers I use.....and has worked for years in the outdoors while working in the woods.

Walmart often has sales on "fruit of the loom" cotton t shirts....I like both long and short sleeve for layering....you need arm movement and at times too many long sleves are too bulky.

I also like zip up stuff like hoodies to allow regulation by unzipping. Again, $12 fruit of the loom. I've even taken fleece and cotton hoodies and cut the arms out to allow bulking my torso and less in the arms.

Outer layer - I like hooded waterproof parka/longer jackets - something with a draw-string elastic inside......adj velcro on wrist to fit over gloves/mittens....bunge string in hood to close down opening if needed. You don't need to spend a lot - I got a fleece lined parka from Bass-Pro on sale for $40.

At 25 below....1 short sleeve t-shirt + 1 long sleeve + fleece vest + parka is enough to be in all day with even a little movement...like snowmobiling.....this is all low tech low cost stuff.

Lower - same here boxers....mor room for warm air to circulate out of groin to legs in my opinion. I like long johns and then I use what I'll call pajama pants over that then outer layer like camo hunting pants. These 3 layers are fine and not too bulky for walking.

If you are going to get stationary for a long time...like ice fishing or sitting in the woods hunting.....or even riding snowmobile......think about buying a pair of snowmobile bibs - you don't need the jacket ----just add the bibs....you can get a pair of Choko brand bibs for under $70 online. These will fit over boots....have lots of upper and lower zippers for regulation......elastic around boots. Bibs are nice in that it shares heat between upper and lower.

On the same -25F high day and on the machine for 10 hours....just boxers, pajama pants and the bibs....that's all I needed....the day earlier I had long johns and got too hot. Bibs are the trick when it's silly cold.

Get some 1200 - 2000 gram thinsulate boots....I like Rocky brand....about $100 - $130...look for sales....

I've been in tree stands hunting all day at 0 F -----I've snowmobiled hundered of miles a day in the U.P. at 25 F below zero foir the high on the day and never got cold.

I'm frugal - and try to do everything at low cost....this has worked for me without a lot of $ spent.

Re: need clothing advice from cold weather experts
 

Good quality polar fleece is nice to have for long underwear, beats anything I ever had before.

Re: need clothing advice from cold weather experts
 

Also - if going remote in the winter - take enough and the correct clothing so that if you get injured you can make it overnight with what you have....it might take a day to find you and in extreme conditions of snow and wind...your tracks can get covered up fast.

Be ready to last a night or so.....you can't build a fire with a broken leg.....it takes a lot of effort to get appropriate wood for winter fire - you need legs to get it.

Re: need clothing advice from cold weather experts
 

For Working outdoors in messy environments my favorite place to shop is the salvation army or second hand stores. 10-20 FRN's and you got jackets and sweatshirts. Keep Moving

Re: need clothing advice from cold weather experts
 

QWAK,Military surplus is the way to get the BEST cheepist! :yes::thinkey:

I got several pares of OVER PANTS and jacket liners to give as "NOTHING DAY" gifts:23_30_104: and I am snug and warm in mine and they are relitively CHEEP compared to civilian stuff!:23_30_104:

The leg side zippers are GREAT for when you get TOO warm! :yes::36_3_13:

DUCK tested and APROVED! :yes: :hahaha: :36_1_11:

http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/cb.aspx?a=580119

http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/cb.aspx?a=566438

Also INSOLATED over all are nice too. :yes:

http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/cb.aspx?a=591964

Add in a hat with ear flaps and some MICKEY MOUSE" boots and you will be toasty warm in the worst weather!

http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/c....aspx?a=504865

http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/c....aspx?a=591923

For $95.00 You got a parka and over pants ,a jacket liner that can be warn as a jacket by it self,a hat with ear flaps and some almost indestructable WARM boots! I would call that a GREAT DEAL any time but ESPECIALY when my FEET are COLD!!

the DUCK :36_1_11::15_1_70v:

Re: need clothing advice from cold weather experts
 

What I learned from camping and hunting on the ice.

Boots are the #1 issue.
Good choices are the Mickey Mouse Boots ... I think some of the guys are calling them Bunny Boots.
I used to buy them at Army surplus stores ... they are the "white" paratrooper jump boots.

There are several private versions ... what makes them work is that the soles and walls have multiple layers of felt sandwiched between rubber.

All of this modern shit and down is nice when its group outdoor stuff your upto.. mountain climbing or skiing or walking around with your platoon.. or whatever. If fiber garments get wet and you can't get into dry shelter in minutes... you are dead.

If you need to be in extreme conditions, away from help or shelter for undetermined periods of time, fur, skins and wool will work to some degree even if soaked in water and frozen.

edit- Its about what you expect to encounter. For me, I needed to be able to fall thru the ice getting soaked, and self rescue.
There are two things I know of that allow room for that... an ice divers dry suit, or wool and skins.

Re: need clothing advice from cold weather experts
 

Question for the experts.

When I cover my head with a ski mask or balaclava how do I keep my eyeglasses from fogging up in the cold?

This has been an ongoing problem for me when ever I have anything that covers my nose.

I've considered getting goggles. But maybe they would fog also. I have to work outside for 2-3 hours at a time regardless of weather.

Ideas and thoughts.

Re: need clothing advice from cold weather experts
 

Goggles have the same problem... if you sweat into them.. or any breath gets into them, they will ice up. The only solution I have found is trying to breath thru my mouth.

Re: need clothing advice from cold weather experts
 

Spent enough time ice-fishing to learn the hard way that layering socks is a big mistake. Once your dogs start to sweat , you're toast.
Single pair wool inside a good lined waterproof boot's all you need.

Re: need clothing advice from cold weather experts
 

http://www.columbia.com/on/demandwar...m&sz=1&start=1

While there is some mention of footwear (one of the most important overlooked factors in cold weather survival), I'll add my 2 cents.

I have used all of the armies cold weather boots that have been fielded in the past thirty years. They all leave much to be desired either in warmth, dryness, or comfort.

I have used many of the Sorrel models. They are mostly adequate but still come up lacking, usually in the same categories as the military boots. A couple of years ago my feet went numb after about an hour while hunting (standing still) in a couple of feet of snow.

Columbia on the other hand has a boot called the Bugaboot Titanium that is IMO the best cold weather boot I have ever worn. Earlier this month I spent about six hours outside (moving/stationary) in about 2 ft of snow with the outside temp below -10 degrees and my feet have never been warmer or dryer. They are light weight and fit like well supported hiking shoes, not sub zero boots.

Another note about Columbia. I had bought my wife some regular Bugaboots about ten years ago. They broke cracked/failed just over the toe area (a common weak point in cold weather boots) which was probably our fault since they spent numerous summers cooking out in our garage. Columbia sent her brand new boots free of charge, no questions asked. I don't know of any other manufacturer that will do that. Bx3

Re: need clothing advice from cold weather experts
 

QWAK,Them are some REALY nice boots! :yes: But at $130.00 each (probably more) I can out fit 3 perhaps 4 people with MICKEY MOUSE BOOTS! :36_1_25:

http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/c....aspx?a=591923

I can not deal with cold feet -- I froze my feet and hands as a kid shoveling snow for $$$ :banghead::banghead::banghead: the Micky mouse boots are CLUNKEY :yes: but they are WARM and I can slip in to them with out lacing them up just to run out for fire wood or lase them up and ware them all day out cuting fire wood -- or what ever. :emotions16:

Cold hands are still a bit of a problem as once my hands get cold I can not make my fingers work right and I fumbel a lot.:s10:

Mostly I just try to avoid the cold as much as posable! :yes: :cry1: :36_1_63:

the DUCK :15_1_70v:

Re: need clothing advice from cold weather experts
 

these gloves rock in really cold temperatures ! i found a used pair at a military surplus store for 30 bucks and snatched them up...

you have to take them off to do anything but once you slip your hands back in there its nice.

i worn them and can testify they work great at cold temps, like -30F

yes, yes, YES ! :) i bet these would run 250 new, IF they made them.

.........

Re: need clothing advice from cold weather experts
 

I understand that the price is a little high (although there are many other brand/models that cost more). I forgot to mention that I got mine towards the end of winter when they were $75 on sale at Scheels. I probably would not have ponied up full price for them originally. After two winters with them however, they would be worth every penny, even at full price. The other benny is that their warranty simply can not be beat as already mentioned. :coolbeer:Bx3

Re: need clothing advice from cold weather experts
 

QWAK,gasilat,I got some and they do keep your hands WARM! :emotions16: but so would BOXING GLOVES! :cry1::111: Can't unscrew a gas cap with them on! :452:

Any more when the temp goes below 50 my hands start losing dexterity and begin aching I have become overly sencitive to the cold. :yes:

That is why I love my heated DUCK POND -- when it is cold out side and about 103 in the pond it is like I "UNFREEZ" and can move like I should. :yes:

BTW: I am waring my ZIP down the leg over pants and my quilte jacket liner as I post -- I imagin I look a bit like a GREEN NOME or perhaps a bundeled up GREE ELF! :111::cry1::yes: I got to bring in some FIRE WOOD. I realy DON'T like being COLD!! :452:

the DUCK :15_1_70v:

Re: need clothing advice from cold weather experts
 

You're right duck they're tough to do anything with....

except !!

GREAT for snowmachining in cold weather. I start wearing these when it gets down to about 10F and colder...

all ya gotta do is squeeze the throttle and brake levers so you can wear them for that...

i love these gloves...they look bulky in the photo but thats decieving. they fit really good.

:)

Re: need clothing advice from cold weather experts
 

QWAK,gasilat,I find that with HAND WARMERS I can use my hands in tight fiting gloves IF I have the hand warmers in side my big MITTENS :emotions16::yes: and stop and warm my hands frequently.

I thought when I moved 500+ miles south of Chicago that I was in the SOUTH and winters would be much more mild than they actualy are -- just the same it is a big improvment to living up north! :23_30_104:

I just don't deal with COLD:36_1_63: well at all :452: I kind of liked it as a kid and loved being able to EARN my own money when it snowed but after I froze my hands and feet -- the fun part went away! :yes: :4_1_72: :10_1_19:

the DUCK :15_1_70v:

Re: need clothing advice from cold weather experts
 

Ice fishing is always a bit of a problem for the hands, being in and out of the water multiple times throughout the day. Even if you dry your hands with a towel, some moisture still finds it's way into the liner which eventually gets damp and cold. This really becomes problematic when fishing perch and crappie where your hands are constantly wet with water and fish slime.

This year I am going to try a medium weight white cotton glove (kind of like a bellhop glove) with a blue surgical glove over top. I'll bring several pairs of each (and my heavy mitts of course) and see how that works.

Which reminds me........check info board to see if Simcoe is tightening up. Yeah baby!!!!!!

Re: need clothing advice from cold weather experts
 

Off topic.......Does anyone here fish Simcoe in Ontario? Send me a pm.

Re: need clothing advice from cold weather experts
 

Hmm -

I generally use some variation of the SPW W/W layering.

Cotton, as they say up here, is the Sweet Kiss of Death.

So:

Silk longjohns

Poly trousers

Poly turtleneck

Wool shirt

Windproof/Waterproof parka with hood

For my feet, a pair of silk undersocks, and smartwool boot socks

For my head, a wool baclava

For my hands, a pair of poly half-fingered gloves with

The mitten flap.

This is when you want to be out all day

In 35 degree air and wading 40 degree water.

It works equally well just generally working outside

In crummy weather.


scyth

Re: need clothing advice from cold weather experts
 

QWAK,I can NOT imagin wanting a FISH bad enough to go ICE FISHING! :452::111::cry1:

http://rathergood.com/herring

http://www.rathergood.com/fishy

http://www.rathergood.com/beef

the DUCK :15_1_70v:

Re: need clothing advice from cold weather experts
 

Duck -

The Northwest Steelhead is not a fish.

It is somewhere between a vision and an obsession

And, if you are very lucky

Understanding the lightningstrike of a Koan.

But then I'm a Scandihoovian.

As passed down in my family, I'm really not

That happy unless I am thoroughly "cold, wet and

Sick to my stomach."


cheers,

scyth

Re: need clothing advice from cold weather experts
 

Is that an invitation?

Re: need clothing advice from cold weather experts
 

I like Cherokee merino wool socks.

R.

Re: need clothing advice from cold weather experts
 

Someone above mentioned that style doesn't matter.

However, I am curious:

What is the best type of cold weather gear when you have to be dressed up "professionally"?

For example: Let's say you had to trek to a fancy pants business meeting with some Fortune 500 execs at a well-below-zero ski lodge in the Rockies. While dining over monkey brains and spotted Pygmy, TSHTF. Everyone else is going to be dead in a few hours from the frost, but you've prepared for the worst.

I'm talking real GQ shit. Like what the Wolf from "Pulp Fiction" would wear.

What sort of gloves, underwear, etc., can you bring with you to a major board meeting in case TSHTF, while not looking like a character from "Lost in the Barrens"?

Re: need clothing advice from cold weather experts
 

i could give a rats ass about fashion looks

" functionality over fashion "

BUT IF, i had to dress up for a fancy winter outing
i'd probably buy an XL-XXL upscale track outfit and put that over my regular layering
( layering would depend on how much i'm actually outside )

Re: need clothing advice from cold weather experts
 

Above all, I've learnt that large shoes with space for toe-wiggle is a must. They should be fattened to achieve some waterproofedness.

Mittens with plenty of room, something waterproof(prefer leather) since I will be grabbing stuff all the time.

Inner layers: fleece is nice, I use it alot. Wool is also nice.

Pants I like something synthetic yet still rugged that dries quickly since they will eventually get icy below the knees from the snow.

Jacket I prefer cotton, an anorak perhaps. Gore tex and such doesn't wear and tear like cotton. It should be wide around the neck so I can fit a *synthetic* scarf that dries quickly. A hood should go far beyond the face forward, most are too small. I remove any synthetic fur lining.

Cap should withstand wind, and be thick. I use one of those russian style "fur" caps, it can be buttoned around the chin.

Re: need clothing advice from cold weather experts
 

All -

Forgot one major item.

A good pair of gaiters.

Now, about "dressing for success."

Due to the line of business I've been in

For the last thirty years,

Billionaires regularly walk through the door.

1.) If you saw them in Safeway you wouldn't even have a clue.
J.C. Penny trou and beat up penny loafers, with a kind of frayed windbreaker is pretty typical.

2.) They don't give a shit about what you wear, its what you
are capable of doing. That is where the rubber really hits the road.

3.) My dress for success. Jeans. Felony flyers. Tshirt or turtleneck. Longsleeve workshirt with buttondown pockets. Working jerk vest with lots of pockets. Ballcap.


There you go...........


scyth

Re: need clothing advice from cold weather experts
 

Haven't tried them out yet.... hope they work as intended.

Minus33 100% Merino Wool Base Layer 720 Balaclava Black One Size

Re: need clothing advice from cold weather experts
 

[QUOTE=BellevueBully;2084605]Ice fishing is always a bit of a problem for the hands, being in and out of the water multiple times throughout the day. Even if you dry your hands with a towel, some moisture still finds it's way into the liner which eventually gets damp and cold. This really becomes problematic when fishing perch and crappie where your hands are constantly wet with water and fish slime.

This year I am going to try a medium weight white cotton glove (kind of like a bellhop glove) with a blue surgical glove over top. I'll bring several pairs of each (and my heavy mitts of course) and see how that works.
QUOTE]

Yes, I've used these up North when I worked around water in the winter. The fishermen use them and you would buy then in a box like a kleenix box. The little white gloves could be used on either hand and were cheap. Was great for small work while its cold (-45C and trying to write something on a worksheet).

If you have a commercial fisherman's shop around, try there for them.

:coolbeer:

Re: need clothing advice from cold weather experts
 

Why does a post about cold weather wear have 9/11 sheet in it? WTF?

I've heard good things about wool btw.

Re: need clothing advice from cold weather experts
 

Cannot recommend PolyPros enough. Best undergarment material in my opinion.

I only like layering if I know that I have to remove clothes during the activity. I find that layering can restrict bloodflow if the clothes are not loose fitting enough.

I also avoid cotton if at all possible. especially against the skin as it holds perspiration that makes you cold.

Keep the nogging warm!!

Re: need clothing advice from cold weather experts
 

I went out deer hunting this past weekend in the mud/snow and field tested a TermaCare back and hip wrap. A buddy of mine suggested them to me and they work great for keeping you warm. Last for 8-10hrs and are odorless.

The theory is, your kidneys are very close to the skin surface. The TermaCare wraps warm the blood in your kidneys and the blood warms the rest of your body.

In the past I was always freezing while deer hunting but not when using these. I'd guess that these add 10-15F to your comfort level.

Re: need clothing advice from cold weather experts
 

I'm a major fan of duofold brand original long johns: cotton next to the skin with mostly merino wool outer layer yet not really bulky. I can't tolerate plastic underwear, though some people seem to do fine in it. The duofolds wick moisture great... or maybe people are different.

You could add a silk long john under duofolds. They are a nice thin natural fabric, and natural fabrics really feel better next to my skin.

Fleece (the plastic kind) in middle layers is toasty. It is seldom cold enough here for it. A nice big parka with hood to go over a watch cap and block wind. And good wool shirts, like pendleton, aren't itchy, though some wool is itchy. That layer would not be next to the skin anyway. I wonder if they are still in business. Their stuff lasts forever if they are. But quality has taken it on the chin for several decades.

Right now it seems a lot of clothing may be being dumped at very low prices. In case of relocation or notable climate cooling I got a nice warm parka for each of us for close to 1/3 of what they were selling for 5 years ago recently. I don't know how long that trend will last, so I got them. And I stocked up on duofolds at the same price or a little higher than my last purchase. ie the dumping seems spotty.

Advice from those with a lot of cold weather experience is probably best, but you had asked about good brands.

Although the company is a wreck, Sears work clothing has proved tough as nails for me and they carry some cold weather gear.

Re: need clothing advice from cold weather experts
 

Apparently there is a manufacturer that specializes in cold weather work cloths in Winnipeg, MB, Canada. They just marked 70 years in business and tend to supply any movie crews that come here to work. Nothing fancy, but meant to work in cold weather in. The labels are: 'Tough Duck' and 'Work Kings'.

http://www.richlu.com/

Supplies Mike Holmes work wear. Hope this helps.

:beer:

Re: need clothing advice from cold weather experts
 

http://wiggys.com/moreinfo.cfm?Product_ID=29

Carhart makes very durable clothing.

do not use cotton as a base layer as some have suggested.

cashmere makes a good first layer and is not itchy.

wool retains insulation even when wet.

Re: need clothing advice from cold weather experts
 

i've got a pair myself and yes they are great!

I bought mine here a while back :
http://www.jaxmercantile.com/product...at=1075&page=1

Re: need clothing advice from cold weather experts
 

Something like this might be worth looking into..

http://cozywinters.com/shop/wg-bhgl.html

Re: need clothing advice from cold weather experts
 

I live in edmonton.

All you need is

Head: micro wool tuque, thin balaclava
Upper body: a long sleeve cotton tshirt, hoodie (pull hood over hat), snowboard jacket. Good snowboard gloves.
Lower body: Boxers or long johns, Jeans/sweatpants, snowboard pants. Micro Wool socks

Why snowboard wear? wind proof, water proof, durable, and breaths. Padded so you can sit in the snow, long so you can secure over boots. washes easily and can withstand hard tree snags.

I've been outside all day ripping down the slopes in -20 weather and never had a problem.

Re: need clothing advice from cold weather experts
 

Acr0,

I know your not the first to post in this thread the idea of wearing cotton, but for anyone considering cotton, cotton is one of the worst things you can wear in the winter in any layer. There is are several choices of better materials than cotton (wool or synthetics are examples). It doesn't retain heat well but does retain moisture. If you sweat at all, it gets trapped in the cotton and gets you cold fast when you stop sweating and gets heavy if you keep sweating. There is plenty of technical wear that wicks away moisture.

The Cabelas catalog is loaded with winterwear/hunting clothing options:

http://www.cabelas.com

and buyer's guides:

performance underwear:

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/te...ge=fieldguides

layering:

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/te...ge=fieldguides

Quote from the above buyer's guide:

"The number one rule for comfort during winter is never use cotton fabrics. Cotton is great for cooling the body down, not keeping it warm. Cotton absorbs moisture and moisture means loss of body heat."

I hope this helps.

Re: need clothing advice from cold weather experts
 

the issue with cold weather survival at night though is that as soon as you sweat AT ALL, you end up shivering because the water soon turns cold. Wool still as this problem, it will retain the water.

http://walking.about.com/od/cold/a/coldclothes.htm

Silk is techincally the best base layer, but i prefer cotton, becuase it will keep you cool when it is warm during the day and warm at night when you layer. When you are adjusted to cold weather, you hardly sweat. You open your jacket and cotton IMO keeps you cool enough without having to pull off a wool underlayer as well.

At lot of people view cotton as the devil. And i agree when hiking in warm weather cotton is horrible. But I barely sweat in cold weather, and you can easily shed a layer to regulate.

Wool is better, but dosn't solve the root sweating problem. I prefer controling my exertion and using cotton.. or paying big bucks for the higher tech fabrics, or costly silk.

I think always changing layering in relation to what you are doing is more important. Personal preference imo. Not many people can afford a dozen micro wool and other undershirts :p plus replacing them is hard in a survival scenerio. learn with the worst, but hope for the best. If your supplies are lost, you need to know how to cope with cotton in cold weather. Cotton shirts are everywhere... performance fabric? not so much :p

Re: need clothing advice from cold weather experts
 

thanks for the link, that has a lot of good additional links.

cold is cold, day or night is irrelavant. You are right, when wool gets wet, it loses its effectiveness and becomes a problem. This is why wool is not a good outer layer in the rain. As a single layer, if it is just cold and not wet out, it works great to wick moisture away from the body. If you wear a none breatheable layer over it, however, you are back to square one.

Good technical wear wickes moisture away from your body and if you layer properly, it will be a long time before you notice any sweat and start shivering because of cold moisture next to your skin.

I don't know how you get "adjusted" to the cold and not sweat. For me, how much I sweat is a function of heart rate and body temperature. The way I adjust is to layer so that the air next to my skin is "warm" enough that I don't have to regulate my body temperature (shiver). But, I don't adjust my exertion to mantain my comfort level, I adjust my layering, so that I can comfortably acheive the exertion required.

If I am hiking 4 mi to my deear stand, I might start out wearing my UnderArmour and a layer of wool or gortex or both, as I start to sweat, I remove and rebalance layers, I might only end up in my UnderArmour layer with ALL my sweat wicked away. When I reach my stand for a 10 hour sit, within 30 minutes, I have added back the layers I need for the day with a windresistence waterproof shell. No shivering for 10 hours. No heat packs.

Yesterday I was shoveling 2 feet of snow in my driveway. Same logic. I was wearing UnderArmour ColdGear and a wool hat, that was all I needed. My heart rate was 150 bpm for a long time and yet I never noticed if I was sweating.

When you learn how to layer the best materials, it is hard to find a place for cotton. You do get what you pay for. But, even cheap wool can be made to work for a lot of situations if you are willing to change out of wet wool and into dry wool as needed. This is exactly why I have many pairs of wool-blend socks. If your feet sweat faster than even good footwear can handle, you need to change out of those wet socks regularly.

This is my experience, your mileage may vary.

Re: need clothing advice from cold weather experts
 

You are completely right, and I wouldn't hesitate to switch cotton for a high performance sportswear underlayer in my list.

basically just personal preferance imo. I just wear cotton shirts because i have a million of them and are cheap to replace :p You can always switch out wet for dry and you wont be devistated if you loose them or wear out/rip ;)

Good thing about winter survival, is that it is very easy to start fires (dry wood) so warmth is usually the least of your problems, unless it is blizzard conditions ;) and if it is, you won't be sweating much :p

Re: need clothing advice from cold weather experts
 

i just ordered a winter coat on clearance from altrec.com

http://www.altrec.com/columbia/mens-...-run-ll-jacket

$83 and free shipping too

Re: need clothing advice from cold weather experts
 

Get Under Armor Cold Gear.

Re: need clothing advice from cold weather experts
 

Yes it does. Wool keeps it insulating properties even when wet so it has adefinite leg up on cotton. Polyester also has the same feature. There are tons of good base layers made from polyester. Patagonia's Capilene is one of my favs, but everyone seems to have gotten into this game from Columbia to Under Armor.

I have purchased a good bulk of my outdoor clothing and layers from these guys: Sierra Trading Post Quality products and good service.

Re: need clothing advice from cold weather experts
 

"The third layer offers protection from the wind. The more wind proof a garment is, the less breathable it will be. A mountain parka or anorak made of a suplex, ventile or micro fiber is excellent. Most Gortex and waterproof-breathable materials do not breathe in temperature below -20 C."

http://www.northwinds-arctic.com/Con...Pclothing.html